Being Driven to Inspire with Les McDaniel

Matt: 00:00:00

Hello friends.

Matt: 00:00:00

Welcome to the optimist podcast today.

Matt: 00:00:02

I'm your host, Matt drank on and today on the podcast we have Mr.

Matt: 00:00:06

Les McDaniel less.

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Here's a little background on him.

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He's an amazing human he's.

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48 years of age, 27 years married to his lovely wife.

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Heatherly four children and a bonus son-in-law.

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He's very competitive.

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I first met him at the front row dads event at one of our retreats

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He's also in the exchange community as facility.

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And less is such an incredible human being and this discussion we're going

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He is someone who's truly overcome many challenges.

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Some of those challenges, if you can imagine he was a boy growing up

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at all right there, uh, he is, uh, not as tall as the average human.

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So he grew up shorter, a little bit smaller with the name of last, but just

Matt: 00:00:54

No, there was opportunities with bullies and school and he Chronicles

Matt: 00:01:00

Also, his wife had a

Les: 00:01:01

stroke that was an incredibly challenging time in both their lives and

Matt: 00:01:05

how they came back together from that he Chronicles

Les: 00:01:09

Um, one thing that you should know about less.

Matt: 00:01:12

He's a very humble person.

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So he won't talk about himself with great accolades.

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And I will, I will gladly share a couple of his accolades

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He was involved in largest corporate real estate deals in

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This is back in Texas, a number of years ago.

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And so we had massive success in real estate.

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He also now, uh, is a coach now and I'll lead you to his website

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Last is just an amazing

Les: 00:01:38

human being.

Les: 00:01:38

He's a, he's a

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great person to listen to channel.

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Because he's got a great, a great heart for loving, caring about

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If you can name the problem, understand the solution.

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He likes to ask a lot of questions to get to understand exactly what it is

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When you're having cases.

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Make something of it.

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The less is someone doesn't sit still.

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He likes to continue to take positive action towards and whatever it is,

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He Chronicles his story today in the podcast.

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He's always open.

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He's always willing to be curious.

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So get ready and Buckley your seats in for a shallow dive.

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At first, it gets deep, fast in this discussion.

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This is a truly amazing human being.

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I love very much things, less McDaniel.

Matt: 00:02:26

Welcome.

Les: 00:02:31

Hello, and welcome to the eternal optimist podcast.

Les: 00:02:35

The show for optimists by optimist.

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This is the show for people who see the good in the world and want to make

Les: 00:02:45

Each week, you'll hear inspiring stories that will get you thinking

Les: 00:02:53

Coach Matt drink on

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my friend Les McDaniel.

Matt: 00:03:07

Good morning.

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Less.

Les: 00:03:09

Good morning, sir.

Les: 00:03:10

How are you coping?

Matt: 00:03:12

We are fantastic today.

Matt: 00:03:14

It is great to have you on, I've been looking forward to this for some time.

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You're one of my favorite people in the universe.

Matt: 00:03:18

So no pressure.

Matt: 00:03:20

Uh, let's have a good time today.

Matt: 00:03:21

How the heck are you today?

Matt: 00:03:22

My friends,

Les: 00:03:23

I am.

Les: 00:03:23

I'm doing pretty well today.

Les: 00:03:25

You know, life is, life is just a, a wonderful rollercoaster ride that I enjoy.

Les: 00:03:30

I just, I I'm finding ways to find joy in almost all circumstances

Les: 00:03:37

Ah, ah, well,

Matt: 00:03:38

you're too kind.

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I'd love to dive a little bit deeper.

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Just kind of get right into it right away.

Matt: 00:03:42

When you say that you're finding joy and you're able to find

Matt: 00:03:49

What's an

Les: 00:03:49

example.

Les: 00:03:50

Oh my goodness.

Les: 00:03:50

There's so many different examples, but I think that we live in a world that

Les: 00:03:57

dualities it's good and bad or right versus wrong or joy versus sadness.

Les: 00:04:03

And there's this.

Les: 00:04:04

Struggle that I think that our world has, and that I'm dealing with in my

Les: 00:04:11

You know, I've just recently kind of discovered that some of the,

Les: 00:04:18

And yet there's, there's a, not a resistance in me to wanting to

Les: 00:04:23

her, her cancer, to really begin to dive into what that looks like.

Les: 00:04:28

Well, we're jumping right in aren't we, but, uh, I'll tell you that one of the, I

Les: 00:04:35

He has this saying that is all suffering is showing you, is

Les: 00:04:41

And the idea for me is very much that that is a deep rooted thing within me,

Les: 00:04:47

feel sad or I'm suffering and it's, and you can even be suffering in.

Les: 00:04:52

Honestly, but anytime I feel that what is really going on deep within

Les: 00:04:57

this idea of what life should be, as opposed to the reality that is present

Les: 00:05:05

You know, we have a lot of things going on, besides that we got, you know, my,

Les: 00:05:10

And he's the last of my four kids to leave the nest, uh, this.

Les: 00:05:14

And there's this sense of excitement that comes along with

Les: 00:05:18

So it's like, there's both of these things walking hand in hand at all times

Les: 00:05:26

It's always letting go of something in order to gain some.

Les: 00:05:29

And so I think the joy for me is living kind of as best as I can.

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And, and in perfectly with an open hand, not with closed fist, tightly held so

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that I think I should have, but just being open to what, what is ever next.

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And, and it is, it is a, you know, it's literally like a roller

Les: 00:05:47

the top of that roller coaster and you start to grip onto the rail.

Les: 00:05:50

And then there's a sense of you finally, you get over that hump and the joy comes

Les: 00:05:56

your hands lift up in the air and feel that joy of that freedom, just that free

Les: 00:06:02

I know that every feels that way about it.

Matt: 00:06:03

So you went deep, fast, less.

Matt: 00:06:06

Uh, wow.

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I didn't even ask the question about what are the challenges

Matt: 00:06:10

You just went straight into one and, uh, thanks for sharing that with this.

Les: 00:06:14

That's where joy is.

Les: 00:06:15

So how else could I describe it?

Les: 00:06:17

You know,

Matt: 00:06:19

Well, I think that a lot of people that might be a foreign concept of,

Matt: 00:06:23

This is something that has a potential for a lot of pain.

Matt: 00:06:25

It is a lot of pain.

Matt: 00:06:27

When you say your wife and you say cancer, you know, that certainly brings

Matt: 00:06:31

It feels painful.

Matt: 00:06:32

And even to even talk about that and your next statement afterwards is

Matt: 00:06:38

the joy in things, you know, I'd love to just back up for a second since

Matt: 00:06:43

it, man, but let's back up a second and I'd love to outline some of these

Matt: 00:06:49

What they've taught you and how you've gotten to this place where

Matt: 00:06:53

So could you back up for a second and share with us, what are some

Matt: 00:06:58

Let's kind of deconstruct what they've taught you and how you've maintained joy

Les: 00:07:01

throughout th I mean, it is a deep subject and, and I really I've

Les: 00:07:07

If you will.

Les: 00:07:08

For quite some time.

Les: 00:07:10

And it's so it's, it's really kind of hard, especially considering that

Les: 00:07:15

come into a group of guys that have just been really supportive of me,

Les: 00:07:19

That's another group of guys has been incredibly supportive to me.

Les: 00:07:22

My life has it.

Les: 00:07:23

Hasn't been a.

Les: 00:07:24

Cherries or whatever, whatever the great sayings are that it's always easy.

Les: 00:07:29

I've been very blessed, but it's blessed because of how I think I've

Les: 00:07:35

pursuit of how I want to see the world versus what maybe is really playing

Les: 00:07:41

I've never been.

Les: 00:07:42

Um, even as a kid, I should say I was never someone who

Les: 00:07:47

I was, I was born into this world, a runt named Leslie that's where, that's, where,

Matt: 00:07:55

that's, where it began right there.

Matt: 00:07:57

I mean,

Les: 00:07:57

you, you know, you are born and you're the smallest kid in your

Les: 00:08:02

gear you're on the first day of school, your teacher says Leslie

Les: 00:08:08

And then, you know, it's less, it's less and like less, as much better.

Les: 00:08:12

I mean, that's the complete opposite of more and, you know, big, it's not

Les: 00:08:19

that it created in me a deep curiosity around people and how to navigate

Les: 00:08:26

And so I learned how to befriend them.

Les: 00:08:28

I learned how to, how to connect.

Les: 00:08:30

Each and every person that was in my world and how to, how to survive and

Les: 00:08:38

Um, probably more out of, I was able to take the jokes first and foremost.

Les: 00:08:43

And then I learned how to start to create a world where I could make people laugh.

Les: 00:08:47

My teachers laugh.

Les: 00:08:48

I was kind of the class clown that they loved, but it also

Les: 00:08:52

You know, I had, I had some, uh, I've had many times where I was raised in

Les: 00:09:00

Very literally I really felt deep down in my soul that we were supposed to live

Les: 00:09:07

And at that time, that's all I really knew was this particular way

Les: 00:09:11

would ask questions and I would, and they were the, you know, basically.

Les: 00:09:15

W why is it that homeless guy coming to church with us?

Les: 00:09:18

And why isn't that homeless guy?

Les: 00:09:19

Our neighbor shouldn't we love him too.

Les: 00:09:21

And, or I would just try to understand people and why they would do

Les: 00:09:26

And, and I would know people that were, seemed really good on the outside,

Les: 00:09:34

That sounded like.

Les: 00:09:35

Yeah, but they, they kind of have to do certain things and

Les: 00:09:39

Well, that made me a target too.

Les: 00:09:41

You know, that made me a little bit of a target because I was always trying to

Les: 00:09:46

And, and when it felt like no

Matt: 00:09:48

less, if you could, if I could interrupt you for a sec, when you say

Matt: 00:09:54

where there was a bully or where you were a target, uh, something that maybe the

Matt: 00:09:59

Can you describe

Les: 00:10:00

that?

Les: 00:10:01

I'm trying to, let me see if I can go back in way back.

Matt: 00:10:03

And for those of you listening right now, Les, he is not that old.

Matt: 00:10:06

I believe less helped you.

Matt: 00:10:07

You're right.

Matt: 00:10:08

About 45 right now.

Matt: 00:10:09

I

Les: 00:10:09

believe I appreciate that.

Les: 00:10:10

48 48.

Les: 00:10:12

I don't know.

Les: 00:10:13

Let me see if I can go.

Les: 00:10:14

I haven't thought about one.

Les: 00:10:15

That goes way back.

Les: 00:10:16

You know, I, I, there were many times in my life where I found myself

Les: 00:10:23

I do have one, I do have one, you know, one of my good friends, one of my best

Les: 00:10:29

he thought it would really be a good idea to get in a fight with a guy who was a

Les: 00:10:34

And in the wonderful west Texas town of Abilene.

Les: 00:10:37

You know, I was like, what in the world are you doing?

Les: 00:10:39

And so I knew what we were getting into.

Les: 00:10:42

I knew this guy, I knew who was going to be showing up to this fight.

Les: 00:10:44

And I'm like, I'm going to go with you and we're not going to end up fighting.

Les: 00:10:47

I showed up.

Les: 00:10:48

And, you know, I looked at the situation and I saw one guy over here who's, uh,

Les: 00:10:57

which was just like hilarious that he thought he was hiding it, several

Les: 00:11:03

And I, I just literally looked at all of these guys and I'm like, guys, here's the.

Les: 00:11:07

None of this is going to go down for the good for anyone.

Les: 00:11:10

You know, you, this got you, who's got your gun, you're gonna pull it out.

Les: 00:11:13

And then what you're going to, you're going to kill shoot.

Les: 00:11:16

And over what two guys who are just trying to settle this something that's

Les: 00:11:23

And the irony of it was is that I was both the friends of these guys that were

Les: 00:11:32

And I was also the friends with this other, my best friend, you know?

Les: 00:11:35

And

Matt: 00:11:37

how did the gang quasi gangsters take it when you said this?

Matt: 00:11:39

Like, what are they looking like

Les: 00:11:40

right now, when I appealed to reason, literally they, they were,

Les: 00:11:46

You know, I guess that makes sense.

Les: 00:11:49

Uh, in the end, there was some yelling, there was some screaming that

Les: 00:11:53

and nobody fought, nobody swung a punch in it and it looks that way.

Les: 00:11:56

And I would put myself in that place pretty regularly.

Les: 00:12:00

And in defense of not just the person, like my, it wasn't

Les: 00:12:03

It was about all of us in that moment.

Les: 00:12:05

And I mean, looking back it's like, that was just stupid.

Les: 00:12:08

Right?

Les: 00:12:09

It was like, why would you show up to a gang fight where there are

Matt: 00:12:15

I mean, maybe you're you're, you're young, you're in high school.

Matt: 00:12:18

You, you have this idealism.

Matt: 00:12:19

You want to stand up for people to stand up for the little guys, stand up for your

Matt: 00:12:26

So you had this huge heart and you want to do good.

Matt: 00:12:28

Let's keep moving.

Matt: 00:12:29

So you go through high school.

Matt: 00:12:31

We, we, I get a sense of who you are as a human.

Matt: 00:12:34

Uh, you've got a huge heart.

Matt: 00:12:35

Are some of the challenges that are coming in the next decade of

Les: 00:12:40

I mean, twenties, you know, I was a good Christian kid.

Les: 00:12:44

I'd kind of conformed a lot of things.

Les: 00:12:45

You know, I was, I was this kid who had actually, when I, and I

Les: 00:12:52

And so I've been married 27 years now or almost 20.

Les: 00:12:55

So.

Les: 00:12:56

I had an amazing world with her, but, and we were very involved in

Les: 00:13:01

And literally I remember knocking on some of the people's doors when they wouldn't

Les: 00:13:07

having this kind of gentle conversation about don't forsake the assembly

Les: 00:13:12

That's pretty hilarious and conservative, but, but still within me was this reading

Les: 00:13:21

And as I started to do that, we started to work with people that were.

Les: 00:13:24

But at the same time my wife was pregnant.

Les: 00:13:26

We had a pregnant drug addict who moved in with us and we helped her, you know,

Les: 00:13:33

and just, just being there for helping her get into a house at one point.

Les: 00:13:36

And you know, all of it was, it was good and it was meaningful.

Les: 00:13:40

There was all the, a lot of things around that that were just unique

Les: 00:13:45

was not necessarily always the way that I thought, or should it be.

Les: 00:13:48

Uh, versus the reality, which was that, you know, you, when you

Les: 00:13:54

Like you hope it doesn't mean that they're going to flip a switch and all

Les: 00:14:00

to the way that we think that I think it should look what social standards

Les: 00:14:06

And it was just, that was one of the many conversations that I've had over the years

Les: 00:14:13

And learning how to love people and realizing that some of their choices don't

Les: 00:14:19

of products of our, of our upbringing, of our circumstances and that it's not easy.

Les: 00:14:24

And that, and in that it, it started to well up in me, like, what does

Les: 00:14:29

What does it mean to love our neighbors, to love our enemies?

Les: 00:14:31

Like, what does this, what does all this mean to really begin to love people no

Les: 00:14:36

And I, and I was radical in some ways about that and very defensive of those

Les: 00:14:42

And it's just such a deep thing for me that that, uh, has been a problem in my

Les: 00:14:49

to be in, in many ways, looked at like that those who are underrepresented.

Les: 00:14:53

And I don't like that because I, I, my family and, you know, it, it would be

Les: 00:15:01

I want to love this other person.

Les: 00:15:03

That's out here on the fringes and bring them into our home.

Les: 00:15:06

And my parents be like, well, we don't want them here for

Les: 00:15:09

That's not what.

Les: 00:15:11

And it's not that they aren't loving or wanting to be that for those

Les: 00:15:16

breaks them out of their mold of what it's supposed to, they have created,

Les: 00:15:21

And it's always messy, you know, the way it has been for many once in my life.

Les: 00:15:24

And it drove me to actually go back and get my masters of divinity at

Les: 00:15:31

so tired of feeling like I was this odd ball and how I was viewing things.

Les: 00:15:35

That was good.

Les: 00:15:36

And amazing and empowering.

Les: 00:15:38

And at the same time, it just created a, uh, in many ways, a greater

Les: 00:15:44

cause it, it literally was like, yes, we are supposed to live this way.

Les: 00:15:47

Or we have the opportunity to live this way.

Les: 00:15:50

It's not the way we were supposed to.

Les: 00:15:51

We can be those who provide that in the world.

Matt: 00:15:54

Sounds to me like you are in this time in your life and your twenties,

Matt: 00:15:59

And I say still because you still have it today too.

Matt: 00:16:02

Like, this is, this is the core theme of you is love.

Matt: 00:16:04

Is.

Matt: 00:16:05

And even when this ideal of love is something that others around you that

Matt: 00:16:12

see it, the exact same frame, you're willing to be uncomfortable because

Matt: 00:16:17

And this presented challenges because others don't see it, the same frame that.

Les: 00:16:21

And, and I'm, I'm just willing to be curious.

Les: 00:16:23

I mean, I think, I think I've just, I don't know who it was

Les: 00:16:27

That there's nothing that I can do to shape God, to change God or to change

Les: 00:16:33

call this source that, that has of all things, this thing that does what it does.

Les: 00:16:38

And I can't break that.

Les: 00:16:40

And, and the more that I, I felt free to do that, the more, it, it

Les: 00:16:48

It just is what it made me feel like, because I curiosity often made,

Les: 00:16:53

the, you know, we, we, as humans, we want to be, we want to believe.

Les: 00:16:57

We want that space of feeling like we belong somewhere.

Les: 00:17:00

And when, when we start building that belonging around belief systems

Les: 00:17:06

changing, it creates a little bit of uncertainty that we don't want.

Les: 00:17:10

We want to be certain about this afterlife thing or whatever it might be.

Les: 00:17:14

And we're willing to forgo even happiness now, which is the most

Les: 00:17:22

For an eternity in heaven, for lack of a better word, this is sounding awful,

Les: 00:17:29

everything is spiritual my book, but I don't mean to be religious in this.

Les: 00:17:32

This is life like that.

Les: 00:17:34

The essence of life is, is fundamentally grounded in our ability to understand

Les: 00:17:40

And when we start to think that there is some way for us to capture a secure.

Les: 00:17:46

In some form of understanding of God or defining God or a defining community

Les: 00:17:54

ourselves and others from what it truly means to be human, to be truly

Les: 00:18:03

I mean, we do this in all sorts of ways.

Les: 00:18:04

I mean, look at the west compared to the east, you know, we call the east

Les: 00:18:09

dogmatically entrepreneurial driven to success and driven to these other things.

Les: 00:18:14

These are all related to this very question of, you know, what

Les: 00:18:18

And, and when we are, the more we separate ourselves into the mindset of creating

Les: 00:18:25

around certain practices, the more we start to create a world that separates.

Les: 00:18:29

From the fullness that of joy that we really want to experience.

Les: 00:18:33

I'll give you one example of one more example.

Les: 00:18:34

Like when I want to, when I seek security and I build up walls around myself

Les: 00:18:42

you know, all these things, the first thing that I have to do is I have to set

Les: 00:18:48

I need to arm myself and I need to find ways to get.

Les: 00:18:50

To maintain that security.

Les: 00:18:52

That's not, that's not security.

Les: 00:18:53

That that means I'm insecure.

Les: 00:18:55

It means that I have to have all these things in order to be okay.

Les: 00:18:59

And so it's the very thing that when we create that security that we think we

Les: 00:19:05

are embracing the fullness of insecurity because now we don't want to lose it.

Les: 00:19:08

Where is that holding on tight to the things that we, that we

Les: 00:19:16

That's suffering.

Les: 00:19:17

We create it's minor and it may be luxuriously suffering.

Les: 00:19:20

It may be all sorts of things, but it's still suffering because we have

Matt: 00:19:26

Well, I'm following everything and I'm jumping from

Matt: 00:19:30

And I'm trying to figure out, you know, how I'm suffering

Matt: 00:19:35

I don't want to lose.

Matt: 00:19:36

Right.

Matt: 00:19:37

Uh, and, uh, but I don't have all the, you know, the, the heavy artillery

Matt: 00:19:42

So part of me wants to have a divergent thought here, but I'm not sure how to

Matt: 00:19:50

I feel like if love is what you're seeking, are you telling me that

Matt: 00:19:56

And that is something that, because we're seeking love, we're suffering.

Matt: 00:20:00

I

Les: 00:20:00

think that I think it's a, it's more long and, and I'm thinking in an

Les: 00:20:05

the only way to really capture the full essence of something is in extremes.

Les: 00:20:08

If I have a stranglehold on my wife and I won't let her out of my sight and I

Les: 00:20:16

Is that meaning if I, if I'm, if I'm so bent on being it, being secure in my, my

Les: 00:20:25

when I can be trusting and I can let that go and I can let my wife be who she is

Les: 00:20:33

to see eye to eye on every single thing that's going on in my world, but still be

Les: 00:20:39

our differences, or maybe because of our differences and allow that to flourish,

Les: 00:20:46

We experienced this in front row dads, you know, it's this idea

Les: 00:20:51

And it's our ability to sit with one another, despite our

Les: 00:20:56

Now, imagine if we started to raise up I ideas or ideologies around front

Les: 00:21:06

The moment that we start doing that is the moment that we actually start

Les: 00:21:12

And, or we're in, we're starting to huddle around certain

Les: 00:21:17

And we're always trying to create boxes around that so that we can find ways

Les: 00:21:26

being, and that's not free, that's not loving, it's loving is, is the

Matt: 00:21:34

So let me reign it back in here to summarize what I've just feel that

Matt: 00:21:42

And being open to what's happening next and the whatever's coming yes.

Matt: 00:21:46

And be inclusive with that.

Matt: 00:21:48

Love can take any form, you know, and I, I appreciate the way that

Matt: 00:21:53

Cause love to look this way to some person over here.

Matt: 00:21:55

It could be, uh, you know, being very close and, and having that the, the

Matt: 00:22:02

the time, it can be very tight like that, or it can be very open and what

Matt: 00:22:09

It can be any way.

Matt: 00:22:10

For anyone.

Matt: 00:22:11

So it's it's curiosity.

Matt: 00:22:12

It's yes.

Les: 00:22:14

So just to differentiate a little bit on that is that I think that the idea of

Les: 00:22:20

and we have to place our identity in it, and it actually keeps someone else

Les: 00:22:27

I wouldn't call that the definition of love.

Les: 00:22:29

In fact, that's what we would call abuse and most, most relationship.

Les: 00:22:32

When we, when it's now the texting back and forth and the, you know, the intimacy

Les: 00:22:40

But it's when we start having a stranglehold on something, when we

Les: 00:22:46

and the, and the, and the way that somebody else does and lives this life.

Les: 00:22:50

That we, it gets on the edge of first and foremost, not loving ourselves

Les: 00:22:55

not able to love ourselves or see ourselves outside of something that

Les: 00:23:01

And it keeps us from truly expressing that fullness of what it means to, to be.

Les: 00:23:07

Forgiveness caring for one another in compassion.

Les: 00:23:11

And I think we just have to be careful in our world of, and this is why we have

Les: 00:23:16

Matt, is that, you know, we, we have this idea that it has to be, everything

Les: 00:23:23

And then everybody has their definition of what that looks like.

Les: 00:23:26

And that's not very loving and we can see that play out.

Les: 00:23:28

And the way things happened on January 6th of what was it, 20, which happens to

Les: 00:23:37

But you know what, at the Capitol where, where people are raising up and ready

Les: 00:23:44

about that, that's built on ideologies belief systems as though we know.

Les: 00:23:48

And there's just this level, there's this place in our world where we, we begin

Les: 00:23:54

everything and we don't have all the answers and that it's going to be messy.

Les: 00:23:57

And my marriage is going to have ups and downs.

Les: 00:23:59

We're going to fight and then we need to forgive and then we need to have intimacy.

Les: 00:24:02

And then we need to, you know, and we have this cycle of things.

Les: 00:24:05

And over time that begins to that's freedom.

Les: 00:24:07

It's the freedom for it to go to all the different places.

Les: 00:24:09

It needs to go in order for it to continue to grow and be, and,

Les: 00:24:14

I mean, I think you would probably agree with.

Les: 00:24:16

I want my wife to be happy.

Les: 00:24:18

And if I ever am in the reason why she is not truly able to find joy

Les: 00:24:24

her in any way, at least for me, I want, I want her to be free from me.

Les: 00:24:29

I want her to be free to be able to leave.

Les: 00:24:31

And it's in that where the excitement and joy of life comes.

Les: 00:24:34

That's the rollercoaster ride.

Les: 00:24:35

It's the, I don't know if this is going to be able to be.

Les: 00:24:38

It's the uncertainty of is this, is this gonna go off the rails?

Les: 00:24:41

That's where true life happens.

Les: 00:24:43

It's in that tension between the, what, you know, the good and the bad.

Matt: 00:24:47

So in that tension between the good and the bad, where love

Matt: 00:24:52

happen, what you are sharing in your message overall, is that in that space?

Matt: 00:24:58

Of that duality.

Matt: 00:24:59

That's where life is.

Matt: 00:25:00

That's where the true joy can be found.

Matt: 00:25:03

And there's going to be sadness too.

Matt: 00:25:04

You're going to have both, there's no middle ground that we should be seeking.

Matt: 00:25:08

We should be able to accept that joy or that sadness and live

Les: 00:25:12

life with love.

Les: 00:25:12

And this is where the challenge comes in seeking the middle ground is

Les: 00:25:17

How can we fall into this place of recognizing the, the, I don't knows

Les: 00:25:23

everything we think we know, you know, I, man, I, you know, I'm trying to.

Les: 00:25:27

Practical example.

Les: 00:25:27

And yet it gets really hairy, which is part of the challenge of being that I've

Matt: 00:25:36

It sounds like it.

Matt: 00:25:37

Cause you've gone pretty deep.

Les: 00:25:38

Yeah, no, I mean, I do.

Les: 00:25:40

I've told you, I don't, I don't, I don't know how to swim in shallow waters.

Les: 00:25:43

I really have struggled with that.

Matt: 00:25:46

Well, let's, let's bring it back to something you shared.

Matt: 00:25:48

That was very, I mean, potential for a great emotion in the very beginning.

Matt: 00:25:51

I mean, it kind of got me welled up thinking about the first thing that

Matt: 00:25:55

you were talking about this challenge of finding out your wife has cancer

Matt: 00:26:00

Now we'd never talked about before.

Matt: 00:26:01

I'd love to, if you're comfortable with it, I'd love to kind of dive into that.

Matt: 00:26:04

What are we facing right now with that?

Matt: 00:26:06

What's the challenge and what's, what's it teaching an analysts

Les: 00:26:09

on the one hand, I have to recognize that, you know, it's not

Les: 00:26:16

And so when I say this and I'm talking about.

Les: 00:26:18

There are some very real emotions that she may not be in the same

Les: 00:26:23

She's got challenges.

Les: 00:26:24

And yet she's got some comforts around that, that I don't have.

Les: 00:26:27

So, you know, my, my way of dealing with this is, is honestly to just be listening.

Les: 00:26:32

And I know that she has struggled deeply with this.

Les: 00:26:34

And thankfully, this is not a death sentence.

Les: 00:26:37

This is chronic myeloid.

Les: 00:26:38

Leukemia is something that is very treatable.

Les: 00:26:40

It's a bone marrow situation where.

Les: 00:26:42

Can make all sorts of pain and inflammation occur.

Les: 00:26:45

And so she's just been in a lot of pain.

Les: 00:26:46

And this is after in 2016, having had a stroke.

Les: 00:26:49

And so she's no, we are together.

Les: 00:26:51

We are no strangers to suffering.

Les: 00:26:54

She has had her share of the one who's dealt with it mostly physically, and which

Les: 00:27:01

But when it comes to how this has played out is.

Les: 00:27:04

Which is a funny thing to say as well after the stroke we saw what

Les: 00:27:09

We saw how life's curriculum transition for us into what

Les: 00:27:14

And it drew us closer.

Les: 00:27:16

It's helped her appreciate the, um, the goodness of life in ways that.

Les: 00:27:21

I think a lot of people miss when they, when everything seems to be easy,

Les: 00:27:26

going well, she is incredibly driven by health herself and always has been.

Les: 00:27:31

And I mean, I remember when she woke up from the stroke, for example, the first

Les: 00:27:36

What was the question of, what did I do?

Les: 00:27:39

She had a stroke and her first questions are, what did I do wrong?

Les: 00:27:43

And I think that we live in a world where there's this perception that we have to

Les: 00:27:48

And that there's some particular right way to live life.

Les: 00:27:51

And that when we experience something that is like suffering or consequences

Les: 00:27:56

wrong rather than just understanding that life, life just has kind of got

Matt: 00:28:05

When she asks you that question, I

Les: 00:28:07

just, I just got up and hugged her and was just thrilled to hear her voice

Les: 00:28:14

It was like five in the morning.

Les: 00:28:15

And so I think there was just an appreciation.

Les: 00:28:17

So I just told her, man, you did nothing wrong.

Les: 00:28:20

You have no idea why this is occurred and we're going to figure it out and

Les: 00:28:23

And we did, and it was a journey.

Les: 00:28:25

And it's the same thing now, you know, so there's a lot of, a lot

Les: 00:28:32

And there is no right path and you can always change your path.

Les: 00:28:34

You can always decide to do a different type of treatment.

Les: 00:28:37

And, and so she wants to, I think, but that comes, that's

Les: 00:28:44

And there's this stigma of suffering and this stigma.

Les: 00:28:48

Prices and things that happen in our world that our news makes.

Les: 00:28:51

So, I mean, really think about how much the media makes such a big deal

Les: 00:28:58

in our world to the nth degree, because for the sake of entertainment,

Les: 00:29:03

And it's fear of dying.

Les: 00:29:04

It's fear of sickness, it's fear of suffering and all these things,

Les: 00:29:10

those things, they tell us what we're supposed to believe about them.

Les: 00:29:12

They tell us what the outcomes are supposed.

Les: 00:29:14

And when you're in it, though, you have to start shutting those voices off and

Les: 00:29:22

You know, did I do something wrong?

Les: 00:29:24

Is there something more to this that's going on?

Les: 00:29:26

Is there something about this that there's a lesson in?

Les: 00:29:28

And so we've just been seeking those lessons and they're, they're not easy.

Les: 00:29:32

And some days, you know, it's miserable and other days it's, it's incredible.

Les: 00:29:36

Last night had an incredible joyful moment.

Les: 00:29:39

In terms of just talking about how, how, like every single experience

Les: 00:29:45

represent health for her and, and her sickness represents our own sickness.

Les: 00:29:49

When we start to get outside of our individual selves, when we stop, we

Les: 00:29:56

Right.

Les: 00:29:57

That I get to do no matter what, at all costs I succeed, I will win.

Les: 00:30:02

I will.

Les: 00:30:02

All the things that we sometimes get focused on in the west that very masculine

Les: 00:30:11

And we need both of those things.

Les: 00:30:13

And so she represents for us that nurturing side.

Les: 00:30:16

Yeah, I am now living into the nurturing for her caring for, and that's not

Les: 00:30:24

And in that moment, when I'm healthy, she's able to highlight that and

Les: 00:30:29

how you are currently expressing your health and your journey.

Les: 00:30:33

And it's in that full picture that she doesn't feel alone, that she

Les: 00:30:38

that she feels, and I feel supported because I get to support her and him.

Les: 00:30:42

It's that expression of, of our oneness as, as humans, that when we can begin

Les: 00:30:53

whole human being and a whole oneness, something beyond human being is where we

Matt: 00:31:08

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Matt: 00:31:13

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Matt: 00:31:38

Well less, you've gone, uh, as expected.

Matt: 00:31:41

You've gotten super deep.

Matt: 00:31:42

I think we're way down here in the Mariana's trench.

Matt: 00:31:44

We're in the deepest waters known to humankind right now.

Matt: 00:31:47

Uh, I'd love to bring it back up.

Matt: 00:31:48

Let's let's come back up to, uh, to, to the level just a

Matt: 00:31:52

And I love to ask you about, as you're finding all these challenges with all your

Matt: 00:31:59

uh, and now recently the cancer, how are you responding, reacting, leading as.

Matt: 00:32:05

And this time, I mean, how do you keep up, you know, the face or the attitude

Les: 00:32:12

I'm real.

Les: 00:32:14

I mean, when it sucks, it sucks.

Les: 00:32:16

And when I make mistakes as a result of being caught up in my own emotion

Les: 00:32:25

And I, I, I really do believe that we exist for the purposes of creating a

Les: 00:32:34

Colors of chaos and mixing them on the pallet of life for the purpose

Les: 00:32:43

And it's that essence of love and forgiveness that creates

Les: 00:32:49

And the chaos is like the chaos is the colors is a real key to this.

Les: 00:32:53

When we are having those cattle moments, it's an opportunity

Les: 00:32:58

I get stuck in it.

Les: 00:32:59

And I drown in the pink colors, but to really be able to find ways

Les: 00:33:06

It's like a seed falls from a tree and dies so that it can

Les: 00:33:12

Another tree and fire burns up things.

Les: 00:33:15

And then in its place, it is the thing, the fertilizer for the next thing to grow.

Les: 00:33:20

And that's the that's what is nature.

Les: 00:33:22

And we have within us, we have that with.

Matt: 00:33:25

I want to highlight something you just shared here for our audience.

Matt: 00:33:27

And I took a note here when we're having chaos, make something of it.

Matt: 00:33:32

Uh, I love that.

Matt: 00:33:32

I think that that's, that's amazing.

Matt: 00:33:34

So whenever things are getting thrown at you a hundred miles an hour and they're

Matt: 00:33:39

challenging thing, or it's the easiest thing, whatever it is, it's thrown at

Les: 00:33:44

something.

Les: 00:33:45

And, and I'll.

Les: 00:33:46

And so I'm going to get real about myself right now, because I think that that's

Les: 00:33:54

Sometimes I, I get it all the time and it's honestly, one of the things

Les: 00:34:00

I'm not saying it in a special way.

Les: 00:34:02

I I've asked.

Les: 00:34:03

I've been.

Les: 00:34:04

God and source or whatever, to remove the way that I think about

Les: 00:34:09

Like, let me just be a white 48 year old middle-class male

Les: 00:34:15

I don't care.

Les: 00:34:16

It would go either direction.

Les: 00:34:17

Just, just make it simple for me so that I can just cling to something

Les: 00:34:22

And it puts me in a place where I feel I have felt alone.

Les: 00:34:25

It is, it has created trauma from me from a perspective of being in business

Les: 00:34:32

someone who, who really wants to push the limits of love and, and open the

Les: 00:34:38

And I have often felt like.

Les: 00:34:40

Very alone and all that.

Les: 00:34:41

And, uh, some of my own traumas and the challenges that I

Les: 00:34:45

I mean, sometimes, you know, the way I see the world drives her insane

Les: 00:34:50

So let me tell you a story and, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Les: 00:34:53

I mean, I am learning to embrace this side of me in a way that has been challenging.

Les: 00:34:58

I think that there are a ton of people in our world who desire to be able to

Les: 00:35:04

they've been put in and the core of my being, that's what I want so desperately.

Les: 00:35:08

And yet I also am afraid.

Les: 00:35:10

I'm afraid of continually standing outside, looking in on people who

Les: 00:35:16

And look right and successful and, and all these things.

Les: 00:35:19

And I'm afraid that I can't make a living doing it.

Les: 00:35:21

And I'm afraid that all, like all those things still play out in my own.

Les: 00:35:24

I mean, th this is the reason that I exist.

Les: 00:35:26

I exist for the purpose.

Les: 00:35:28

I believe of just of, of showing people that they can be free to be who they are.

Les: 00:35:32

And that means that the most limiting belief that someone

Les: 00:35:37

And it is true for me too.

Les: 00:35:38

And others have, have maybe seen a bigger picture.

Les: 00:35:42

That truth or that belief that some of us have, uh, about whatever it is,

Les: 00:35:48

I just want to be able to help people expand that picture in such a way

Les: 00:35:53

of life experience, more joy, not to get caught in the lines of dogma.

Les: 00:35:57

That simply say, if you are suffering, if you are poor, if you are broken,

Les: 00:36:07

I want to help people to see the chaos that they're feeling and help

Les: 00:36:13

the life that they want from that, because that is so valid and so

Matt: 00:36:18

You want to help them.

Matt: 00:36:19

You exist to show people they can be free.

Matt: 00:36:22

You want to help them see that they can be free of this.

Matt: 00:36:25

They can be in chaos and be free of those shacks.

Matt: 00:36:28

What are you doing yourself to free yourself from this?

Matt: 00:36:31

Cause it seems like something that you definitely struggled with yourself.

Matt: 00:36:33

How are you freeing yourself?

Matt: 00:36:34

Or what's the process you're using to work on freeing yourself less?

Les: 00:36:38

Well, curiosity continues to be my key for one.

Les: 00:36:41

It is working with people and coaches and other plant-based substances

Les: 00:36:48

I'm just willing to go down any path that is available that is represented by love.

Les: 00:36:52

Like the only we'll call it law.

Les: 00:36:54

Dogma, if you will, is that it has to, it, it has to be.

Les: 00:36:58

It has to be with an intent of, of something bigger than myself and,

Les: 00:37:05

they are someone who's not just, I'm not just hiring them to fill their

Les: 00:37:10

recognize that they are in this for the greater good of all, when I can

Les: 00:37:15

And I can start to listen to other people's stories.

Les: 00:37:19

Th then literally the name of my company is epic fusion.

Les: 00:37:21

It's where our stories become fused together.

Les: 00:37:23

And when stories are fused together, when my suffering is fused with

Les: 00:37:28

feels lighter and energetically, it puts off light, literal light.

Les: 00:37:33

It helps other people begin to see their story as valid and good

Les: 00:37:38

And so when we can do that with one another and what I do that

Les: 00:37:43

It's why I'm a part of front row dads, because when I'm with you guys, All of

Les: 00:37:47

where I'm at with my kids and being about to be an empty nester, it's in service

Les: 00:37:53

It's allowing me to help other dads realize that this thing that they feel

Les: 00:37:59

them, them to find incredible joy and love and grow closer to their kids rather

Les: 00:38:05

to manipulate and control the situation for their own, for them to feel like,

Les: 00:38:11

No man.

Les: 00:38:12

It's like, let's get this shit messy.

Les: 00:38:14

Let's understand that life is just messy.

Les: 00:38:16

And it's fun in that, that state.

Les: 00:38:17

I mean, there's a reason why we do things like the tough Mudder and run hard

Les: 00:38:27

Cause that's where, that's where the essence of life is for us.

Matt: 00:38:30

Yes.

Matt: 00:38:31

It feels like the environment you're creating or the environment you seek

Matt: 00:38:37

were a part of is an environment where, uh, curiosity is championed, uh, where

Matt: 00:38:46

Look a certain way.

Matt: 00:38:48

Open curious towards some vision, some purpose.

Matt: 00:38:52

And if the purpose is say, it's front row dads or the purposes, you know how you

Matt: 00:38:57

when we're in alignment and purpose and we're open and curious, we can find love.

Matt: 00:39:01

We can find,

Les: 00:39:02

yeah, it's my commitment is to be transparent in that endeavor is.

Les: 00:39:07

It is to own the fact that I am esoteric and be proud of the fact that I bring

Les: 00:39:14

the fact that I'm struggling to do it, that it's messy, that I'm, I have my

Les: 00:39:21

You know, we're going into a, for a dad's event next week.

Les: 00:39:23

Right.

Les: 00:39:24

And I'm already setting the intention.

Les: 00:39:26

I mean, all the guys will not appreciate this if I literally do

Les: 00:39:31

Yeah, man.

Les: 00:39:32

My life is a struggle right now to allow for the fact not to not

Les: 00:39:41

That's going to show up and save the day of anybody or what, but no, it's just

Les: 00:39:48

that they're also going to be willing to do the same when the tendency is, as you

Les: 00:39:55

So the tendency or the.

Les: 00:39:57

The temptation I should say is to put on a facade, to put on a mask that

Les: 00:40:04

so that others may look up to me or think of me a certain way so that I

Les: 00:40:09

in my life that I think is important to me, the things that I'm clinging

Les: 00:40:15

I want to be open for my ego to be challenged.

Les: 00:40:17

I want to be open for my bullshit to be called.

Les: 00:40:21

I want to be, because I think it's, then that I, I can truly experience, love,

Les: 00:40:29

You'll you're never going to be able to look at me.

Les: 00:40:31

And when I run for president one day, that's not going to happen and pull

Les: 00:40:36

well, you did this when you were, and you did this and you did this, I'm

Les: 00:40:42

That's always been there.

Les: 00:40:43

There's never been a moment that it hasn't been there.

Les: 00:40:45

What else do you want to say?

Les: 00:40:46

I'm, I'm owning my stuff.

Les: 00:40:48

What are you hiding?

Les: 00:40:49

You know, that you feel like you need to point it out.

Les: 00:40:50

So that, that is where I want to be in my life.

Les: 00:40:53

Not just with throw dads, but in every aspect of my life.

Les: 00:40:56

And my suffering comes when I don't, when I'm not true to.

Les: 00:40:59

My suffering comes when I start to hold onto the things that I tried to protect

Matt: 00:41:02

myself with.

Matt: 00:41:03

What I'm hearing is if the future vision, what you're creating in your life, what

Matt: 00:41:09

is a place where they go ahead into their fears with openness, with curiosity,

Matt: 00:41:16

When they do that, they have the chance to be authentic.

Matt: 00:41:19

They have a chance to find love.

Matt: 00:41:21

And that is where, you know, this duality, this joy, the sadness,

Matt: 00:41:25

Whatever, whatever the duality is, that's where they can

Matt: 00:41:29

They can learn to love through it.

Matt: 00:41:31

Oh, and a quick, a service announcement front row, dads

Matt: 00:41:37

Just want you to know that everyone out there, you know, but back to it

Matt: 00:41:41

where, uh, openness curiosity that can help us get to a place of.

Matt: 00:41:45

And that's how you deal head on with challenges and fears, uh, is

Les: 00:41:51

in.

Les: 00:41:51

Yes.

Les: 00:41:52

There's a statement that I heard recently that if you can name the problem,

Les: 00:41:58

And I think that that's a real key to this is that when, when I CA when I go

Les: 00:42:05

name it out loud, I'm actually denying any opportunity for myself to succeed

Les: 00:42:12

I actually am limiting my ability.

Les: 00:42:14

To come to new outcomes in this world.

Les: 00:42:16

So I think that's a, I think that's a really important key for any of us that

Les: 00:42:25

And because then we start to uncover other ideas about what success looks like.

Les: 00:42:29

It becomes more of that relational aspect because it really literally, it's

Les: 00:42:37

That is the only way we actually understand our existing.

Les: 00:42:41

Th there is no existence without the rest and until we can be free

Les: 00:42:48

Well,

Matt: 00:42:48

let's name a problem, then let's do one quick exercise.

Matt: 00:42:51

Then we'll move.

Matt: 00:42:51

We'll wrap up with our last question.

Matt: 00:42:53

If you can name the problem, you can understand the solution.

Matt: 00:42:56

And let's say the problem for example is I'm a 48 year old, uh,

Matt: 00:43:03

And I have a wife who's been diagnosed with cancer, uh,

Matt: 00:43:10

Right.

Matt: 00:43:11

Is these life things, these challenges then help me

Les: 00:43:16

So in that moment, the solution comes down to.

Les: 00:43:19

There is, there is nothing to fix that, that in this cancer, that the,

Les: 00:43:25

to love my wife, unconditionally, that healing comes when I can help

Les: 00:43:31

That healing comes when it's not about the cancer at all, but it's about

Les: 00:43:39

Welcoming of all that life has.

Les: 00:43:42

And, and, and I don't do that by telling her, like, that sucks.

Les: 00:43:45

What I do that does not go well, does not go

Matt: 00:43:48

with yeah, it doesn't work well.

Matt: 00:43:50

When we try to coach our, our spouses a public service announcement.

Matt: 00:43:54

Yes.

Les: 00:43:55

I represent an unconditional dedication and commitment to her.

Les: 00:43:59

No matter what.

Les: 00:44:00

When, when she is in the throws of this is awful, life sucks.

Les: 00:44:04

I am angry.

Les: 00:44:05

I'm mad that I hurt.

Les: 00:44:06

Um, and I just go in there and I can hug her and I can love

Les: 00:44:11

And then in return, when I have days where I am like, this sucks that

Les: 00:44:16

And I'm angry that we have to spend our time and energy around

Les: 00:44:23

And she can look at me.

Les: 00:44:24

She goes, it's going to be.

Les: 00:44:25

And we enjoy, I love you for feeling that way, but it's going to be,

Les: 00:44:29

It's not in, it's not even in seeing cancer as the problem.

Les: 00:44:32

The problem is that I see cancer as a problem.

Les: 00:44:35

That's the problem.

Les: 00:44:36

The problem is that I began to think that it shouldn't be here.

Les: 00:44:38

And so when I can just begin to embrace it, this is what it's supposed to be.

Les: 00:44:42

And now how does, how does love express itself in this

Les: 00:44:47

Then I become a part of something that's the greater good for?

Les: 00:44:50

Not just, it's not about me because let's be honest.

Les: 00:44:53

If I, why else would I not want.

Les: 00:44:55

It's an inconvenience for me.

Les: 00:44:57

I mean, more than it's an inconvenience for me, because this is the only

Les: 00:45:02

It interferes with, if she's not feeling good because the cancer then

Les: 00:45:07

her anger or her sadness goes up, which means I have to be available.

Les: 00:45:12

And that interferes with my plans.

Les: 00:45:13

And I like, but if I can just let go of all that, if I can be open

Les: 00:45:18

be, and then be responsive in the moment, then it begins to be something

Les: 00:45:23

And it allows us to now be experienced love in a way that is whole.

Les: 00:45:28

And I can't, I can't say, you know, when we talk about oneness in marriage,

Les: 00:45:34

just that freedom to be able to love one another unconditionally,

Les: 00:45:41

And to allow the chaos to be the thing from which we birth new creation from.

Les: 00:45:45

And I will go back to that probably for the rest of my life.

Les: 00:45:48

It is such a key piece of, of life for us.

Les: 00:45:51

And I have, we have moments where we're like, yeah, I

Les: 00:45:54

But I think at the end of the day, with everything that we learned in everything

Les: 00:45:59

the things that we are growing in, like, she's, she'll tell you, she would not

Les: 00:46:04

What would we have?

Les: 00:46:05

What would we lose without.

Les: 00:46:08

What would we be missing in our relationship with ourselves, with

Les: 00:46:13

Yes,

Matt: 00:46:15

that brings up a great point.

Matt: 00:46:16

I mean, every challenge that happens is an opportunity for wherever rat to evolve,

Matt: 00:46:25

Uh, I love the thought here and I believe it's one of the tenants of

Matt: 00:46:29

thing that, you know, learn to love and appreciate the things that you don't want.

Matt: 00:46:34

And they'll have no more power over you and you can be present

Matt: 00:46:38

And I love everything you've said, uh, unless I'd love to a speaking of love.

Matt: 00:46:42

I love to build a bridge here to our last question.

Matt: 00:46:45

And I know we could go on for hours because we have before and we

Matt: 00:46:52

The last question I love to ask.

Matt: 00:46:54

I like to give you a runway on this one, just let me, maybe we

Matt: 00:47:01

If there were a piece of advice you have to, someone out there, someone

Matt: 00:47:07

endured, they're overcoming someone that wants to create an exciting future.

Matt: 00:47:12

Any piece of advice, any one specific piece of advice you'd love to offer.

Matt: 00:47:16

We'd love

Les: 00:47:16

to listen.

Les: 00:47:17

I think there are a lot of people who are really suffering.

Les: 00:47:20

Today who feel very alone in that suffering who feel isolated, who

Les: 00:47:28

And, and it's a lot of it because they they've got this idea of

Les: 00:47:35

And I think the question becomes is how can you see your suffering

Les: 00:47:42

How can you begin to ask the questions of what teaching does our entire.

Les: 00:47:47

World need today that can be taught as a result of what you were going

Les: 00:47:52

Because I think right there in that space is the place where your suffering

Les: 00:48:01

on suffering and want to, you know, become reclusive and, and cover up and

Les: 00:48:08

But we need that suffering.

Les: 00:48:09

We need you to share that story because when we, when your story becomes.

Les: 00:48:13

That's a part of my story.

Les: 00:48:15

Energetically creates light for the rest of us to begin to find more,

Les: 00:48:22

So, um, it's really about just how can you integrate your suffering

Matt: 00:48:31

Awesome.

Matt: 00:48:32

Uh, you did not disappoint today.

Matt: 00:48:33

You went so many places today, all back to the theme of love and being able to

Matt: 00:48:44

right now, not as a problem, but as an opportunity to lean closer into the people

Matt: 00:48:51

And I love the message today less.

Matt: 00:48:53

So one of the reason I love you, can you share a one last, I'm

Matt: 00:48:57

Connect with you.

Matt: 00:48:58

If they want to find you on any social media or website, how do people

Les: 00:49:02

find out more about less?

Les: 00:49:03

Sure.

Les: 00:49:03

Well, first and foremost, you can email me.

Les: 00:49:05

Don't put me on your spam emails.

Les: 00:49:07

If you're actually listening to this and like, oh, well there's

Les: 00:49:11

Now email me.

Les: 00:49:12

I mean less, which is with one S at epic fusion dot light.

Les: 00:49:16

That's epi.

Les: 00:49:18

Fusion F U S I O n.life, my website, which is about to blanch here, as soon as epic

Les: 00:49:26

out on all my social channels, which has less, is more life or less is more.life.

Les: 00:49:31

Uh, Facebook, I got a page, their Instagram, all those things less is

Les: 00:49:38

the affirmation of less is more to overcome being less in my life.

Matt: 00:49:45

I like that.

Matt: 00:49:45

Can you share with our audience, one thing just came to mind.

Matt: 00:49:47

Can you show their audience?

Matt: 00:49:48

What is your license plate look

Les: 00:49:50

like?

Les: 00:49:50

Ah, it says my license plate.

Les: 00:49:53

I can't, I can't show it to you, but it says love w N Z, which

Les: 00:49:58

I got love wins 30 years so that when I'm honking at you and screaming

Les: 00:50:03

you can look at my license plate and you can know that love wins.

Les: 00:50:05

So love me.

Matt: 00:50:08

Hopefully, not too many people are screaming at you.

Matt: 00:50:10

Uh, as soon as you go buy them that big truck.

Les: 00:50:14

Yeah.

Les: 00:50:15

That doesn't have it.

Les: 00:50:16

You know, love wins is the key.

Les: 00:50:18

That is it for all of us.

Les: 00:50:19

Awesome.

Matt: 00:50:20

Well, thank you so much less for, uh, taking the time

Matt: 00:50:23

And, uh, we love you much appreciated and, uh, look forward

Les: 00:50:27

Absolutely.

Les: 00:50:32

Thanks for listening to the eternal optimist podcast.

Les: 00:50:36

You can check the show notes for information about today's episode,